Introducing..........ME

[cardmnal]

Hi all, nice to meet you.

I am not a coder and do not have a lot of interest in 3-d stuff (right now). My main interest right now is in Photoshop and aditional interests in Paint Shop Pro as well as illustrator, freehand that sort of stuff.

Don't know about other catagories but it looks as if photoshop could use a kick in the pants so I am going to just post stuff and see if we can't get more interest generated.

Feel free to critique any work I post and offer suggestions. Also, if you know a good or better way to do something let me know. I am all about learning.

See ya all on the front lines. Have Fun

[Bub]

Nice you meet ya. Hope you have a good time here at Biorust!

[Man1c M0g]

Hiya Carmnal! If you are all about learning, then this is definately the community for you! Oh, and any help you can offer in revitalizing the Photoshop forum is definately appreciated... its been kinda quiet there recently!

[cardmnal]

Thanks for the howdy.

I don't know about the inner workings of BioRUST but let me run a few things by you.

The key to a site such as this and to each department staying busy is user interaction - get people involved in what's going on. I belong to a few other "photoshop" sites and the really good ones all have this in common as well as more focused forums.

What I mean by more focused forums is instead of a Photoshop forum where everything photoshop is just thrown in together try having a Photoshop forum with sub forums on, image manipulation, retouch and restoration, chalenges, photo-art, How tos (where someone might ask how to do things), plugins, book reviews. etc. I know it sounds like a lot but this is what will draw savvy users and it will keep them coming back time and again.

User interaction is simple. Encourage people to post there problem images, to work on others images, ask questions, and to explain how they made a correction or created a work. We all learn from each other this way.

I would also watch the language. If you want a real good site, the kind where people who have been doing this for years will come and share their knowledge I would not be allowing phrases like "code whore" or other such language. That type of language is offensive and gives the impression of a street corner and not a place to learn, share, and/or teach.


I hope nobody is offended by what I said, I am just offering my humble opinion.

I wouldn't want BioRUST to be a clone of this, but take a look at this site and you will see what I mean by user interaction and forum set up. Click Here (hope that didn't break the rules. It is only intended to illustrate what I am talking about.)

[Order]

To touch on what you said in more detail, as I work with sites that are designed to turn visitors into revenue, user interactions involves:

1. Search Engine Optimization. The better the search ranking, the more people.
2. User Paths, this is usually in the shape of a Z across the screen, the users eyes usually scam the page in this path.
3. User follow-through, direct the user where you want him to do, make each step clear and simple, but don't have too many steps at all.

Those three steps are how to have more control over the basic visitor, at least this is what I was taught.

[onbrid]

Hi Carmnal! I don't think that your sub forum idea would really work that well with Biorust, or at least it would work to well at the moment. The photoshop forum isn't really that active as it is and I think creating lots of sub-forums would really not be of benifit. I understand what you're saying and if the site was more active and people posted more frequently then sub-forums would be a good idea as they let users find specific imfomation much quicker. With smaller sites, having a few more general sort of forums attracts users because the post count seems much higher. Maybe if Biorust grows in size we will need photoshop sub forums but right now I think the forums are organised just fine.

-onbrid

[cardmnal]

Order, you must be a graphic design student.

Those three rules work well in advertising and sales but not in community.

Search engine optimization only gets people to your site it soes not make the site sticky. Even good content will not make the site sticky if it is a chore to get where a person wants to go or difficult to find what they are looking for.


User paths are based on most cultural standards for reading...we are trained to read from left to right. It's a great theory if your laying out a magazine or more importantly an advertising brochure.

User follow through has basicaly the same issues in this instance. It works in a magazine ad or a printed brochure. It even works on the web if your site's goal is to sell something. Again, it's not a community thing.

Probably the most important rule of thumb to remember is this. When people do come looking around you have somewhere between 5 and 9 seconds to get and keep their attention. This works on every page of every site. That is why forums have to be intuitive and information quickly accessable.

[Order]

How would three tiers of forums, then finally threads be easily accessible..? Too many levels, and too much clicking to move around will only confuse the visitor. The idea is to encourage a reason for the user to join. Some will join for the community, in our case, many will join for the downloads we offer, few will come to the community.

I have spoken with m0g to draw in more search traffic, this will be beneficial in getting more sign-ups. We have had over 300 registrations in a matter of less then a week, now we just need to get those members on the board, and have plans in the works to do such.

We may have 5 to 9 seconds to get them to sign-up, but we have eternity to get them active, time is more helpful then anyone will admit.

I am not a graphic design student at all, I am not even in college yet, finishing senior year of High School. I am a self-taught programmer and designer, I do both proficiently and professionally.

[Man1c M0g]

Many thanks for all your feedback guys and gals! I don't think the forums would be benefitted by multiple subforums just yet, although I go agree with the idea. Once each section is a little more active, I will give definate consideration to expanding them, but at the moment it'll just stretch the already thin posts even further and make us look desperate.

Oh, and as for the mod_rewrite thing - my current server doesn't support it, but i'm pretty sure that the new one will. The spiders should like it... The next version of Biorust will hopefully look a bit of a cross between the new www.neverside.com design and the old raster design. This will give us clean flexibility whilst, of course, I retain the bright colour scheme which makes this site so pleasant to behold. I'm due to start developing the design whole-souled in a month's time - until then i'm gonna work more on the backend of the webby and stuff....

PS. Any more ideas on how we can get more users active? I'm open to many many ideas, and will implement the best ones as soon as possible! =D

[Order]

Need to bring in more creative people, to expand out user galleries, maybe a nice mass mailing to let them know we have a community. I wonder if many of our users realize we do. Perhaps throw the intro link, and let them say hi?

Competitions for simple things are also a good idea, and a good way to bring in people.

[Loki]

Originally Posted by cardmnal

Order, you must be a graphic design student.

Those three rules work well in advertising and sales but not in community.

Search engine optimization only gets people to your site it soes not make the site sticky. Even good content will not make the site sticky if it is a chore to get where a person wants to go or difficult to find what they are looking for.


User paths are based on most cultural standards for reading...we are trained to read from left to right. It's a great theory if your laying out a magazine or more importantly an advertising brochure.

User follow through has basicaly the same issues in this instance. It works in a magazine ad or a printed brochure. It even works on the web if your site's goal is to sell something. Again, it's not a community thing.

Probably the most important rule of thumb to remember is this. When people do come looking around you have somewhere between 5 and 9 seconds to get and keep their attention. This works on every page of every site. That is why forums have to be intuitive and information quickly accessable.

Community and advertising go hand-in-hand. You're trying to sell the community to the people so they join, but keeping them comfortable is another matter. Plus, as Order brought out, complicated and cluttered communities don't do so well simplicity is the key.

As for the 5-9 seconds thing, that's true because according to scientists it take the human brain about 8 seconds to process information being presented to them. I'm not usre if that info was useful, but then again I'm not really sure of anything at this point.

[cardmnal]

I am not a graphic design student at all, I am not even in college yet, finishing senior year of High School. I am a self-taught programmer and designer, I do both proficiently and professionally.

I am a professional, freelance graphic designer. I have degrees in digital image manipulation (AA), prepress technology (AA), as well Graphic Design (AA). I have been a paid graphic designer for 7 years and freelancer for 5 of that.

I have a BS in business and am currently working on my MBA in digital commerce.

Now that we have both posted our credentials..........



__________________________________________________ _____


I just read the post that said the average person on the internet is 18-23 years old. That statement made a lot of things clear to me. I will make a couple of comments and be gone.


____________________________________________

How would three tiers of forums, then finally threads be easily accessible..?

Open a text book. Turn to the table of contents and you will find a list of chapters (tier1). Turn to a chapter and you will most likely find sections (tier 2). Inside these sections are headings (tier 3). Within these headings are sub-headings (threads).

This is the way most people have learned to find their way around printed material and is in fact second nature to most.

Remember, you are trying to build a community of intelligent people here not sell underwear.

Too many levels, and too much clicking to move around will only confuse the visitor.

I hate to think that you believe people with an interest and knowledge in the subject matter being presented at this site are somehow too dumb to navigate around. As long as there is a back or home button it's pretty hard to get confused.

Also I imagine you have been around this site for quite a while. As a newbie I will tell you it is not as intuitive to find your way around it as you like to think. The purpose of the site isn't even clear.

Some will join for the community, in our case, many will join for the downloads we offer, few will come to the community.

If community was working we would not be having this discussion. As for your downloads I have some disheartening news...they are not that good. I do not say this to be a put down. The problem is many, many, many sites offer free downloads and, like most, yours are not so spectacular that most people will remember where they come from.

_________________________________________________


If you are proficient at design and setting up web sites you should know that it is much easier to put the structure in place now than later. If I have a client that wants to sell sunglasses online I set up his site so he can sell sunglasses, cases, eyeglass cleaner kits, hats and yes....even underwear. My point is it is easier to have the site ready to just drop things in than it is to have to reorganize everything later


_________________________________________________

Last and most importantly...good luck!!!

-cardmnal





.

[Order]

Well, first of all, I will not let this turn into a discussion about proper methods, since no method for web design, or anything is the correct method, there are different methods for everything, even in how you put your underwear on.

As you said most people only are 18 and older, in the world of web design, you will find many are younger then that. I am only 18, I first took my step into HTML when I around 11. I have been told time and time again by prospective employers that I am too young and too much of a risk. It is their loss, I finally did get hired, and am a Junior Designer and Developer, mainly using my expertise of User Interface design and PHP/MySQL experience to deliver powerful solutions.

And I ask you, since you are obviously much older then I am, what 18 year old do you know wants to travel through sub-forum after sub-form to finally write a question on how he can adjust the hue on a scanned photo.

Biorust has been around for years, ran by our one and only Admin, M0g, who happens to be one of the smartest and easiest people to be under. I have been here for almost two years, give or take a few months, and I know Biorust has been around much longer.

On one last note, which I assure you I am indeed bragging, I have ran communities, I know how they work. People care for what they get out of a community, not what the community gives them. People don't care if they can get somewhere logically, if they have a question, they want to be able to post it and get answers, not have to resort to a "Table of Contents" or "Index" to find their way, granted if you are patient and have the time to look at such, (I would like you to find an 18 year old who has either.) it is helpful, but we are not a book to be read, we are a community based on opinions, knowledge, and individuals.

We are not selling anything here.. your comments about selling things or "oraganizing" such stuff is not valid here. We are a group of like-minded individuals here to share our knowledge, and opinions, and the occasional rant.

I am done with this thread.. and I hope it can return to a introduction thread.

-- end rant --

[ConceptualMind]

cardmnal, I can't help but be curious. Do you have a portfolio I could look at? I'm interested in seeing some of your designs.

While we're on topic about organizing a forum - BioRUST has gone through many changes since fall of 2003 when the boards were started. A lot of trial and error occurred during that time. We, the staff of BioRUST, experimented with several ideas. Forum organization was one.

What you see today is the result of experimentation. We've removed boards, added boards, and changed the location of boards. The set up we have now fufills its purpose.

Adding sub-categories only increases clutter and clumsiness. We don't have many problems with threads being created in the wrong board. Additionally, everything is easy to find.

As for the downloads, they're attracting more visitors than you can imagine. Perhaps they may not interest you, but tons of individuals are registering to become a part of this community and benefit from what we offer.

Oh yeah, keeping with the underwear analogy ... Some people prefer boxers, others prefer briefs. The same concept applies to forums. Each person has their own idea on how things should be managed. Your perspective may not be the same as ours. Realize the staff is here for the visitor. We're trying to help you as much as possible.

[/rant]

[Lexiblue]

WoW! I've learned a lot with this thread. Cardmnal, you have impressed upon me that the bigger your BS (degree), the further away you moved from what matters. People skills are what should be the most cultivated, first and foremost (esp in business)...if you behave like a bull in a china shop first foot through the door, it won't matter what your experience, intelligence or great things you have to offer....no one will notice anything but the smoke you are blowing. This is a great community and I have no doubt you have something useful to contribute. You might take a step back, get to know know the heart of this community and gain a better understanding of what this place is really about.

I would say welcome, but I feel like you already let yourself in and you are sitting on my couch in your underwear, feet propped up, drinking Corona and eating Doritos. I guess what would be more appropriate to say is "Would you like a sandwich with that?"

Lexi