Iraq is really getting bad?

[Milkdrop]

Lately over the last two months Iraq seems to be really bad. I just hate the fact that we went into Iraq and completely screwed the country up and now we are trying to leave. I think we should try and discuss peace with the country. If i was an Iraqi civilian i would be pis*ed off that some Americans have invaded my country and are apperently trying to help me, fighting isn' the answer to any of lifes problems. Here is also a very cool article i found on some of the latest events in Iraq.

I made this thread because this general dicussion forum doesn't seem to be that busy lately.


http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/...ain/index.html

[Man1c M0g]

I think the main crux of the problem is that Iraqis *DID* want to be liberated, but by their own arabic brothers and not the US. When the US did invade they accepted it at first, and thought the hand over of power would be quick... but you can't blame them for seeing the current extended stay as an enemy occupation.

[Young Spartan]

I think America is trying everything they can to fix up Iraq, only so much can be done and no matter what we do, someone is going to say its wrong. Busch has his head on right and should stay on the track he is on.

Yuneek

[Evdawg]

no matter what we do, someone is going to say its wrong

i agree with yuneek, whatever we (or they from my perspective) do someone will say it's wrong.

but as a general opinion, i'm against the war in iraq. but i suppose it's over. and i suppose we should all hope that everything will turn out well.

[Order]

5-0: War is the basis of civilization, it is how humans solve differences, has been since we first appeared on the planet. Without war, there is strife, with strife comes Chaos, and then Hell.. so war is a good way to cause change without the world falling apart.

Iraq's were looking for their religous leaders to liberate them, but that would have never happened, you see, Sadam may be a bad person, but he was smart, he did keep that country running smoothly for a long time, even though he killed everyone he did not like. Look at other evil leaders, Hitler, to this day, no one can deny he was not one of the greatest leaders of the past century, sure evil, but great.

Note that I am not a nazi, or evil, but credit is credit, as world changes are caused by war, without it = no change = strife = chaos. Evolution states that nothing can stay the same and survive.. so of course, changes happen..

I believe I have explained this post in several fields, political, scientific, and opinion... interesting am I!

[Evdawg]

on a related note, have you guys been following the abuse at the US iraq prisons? pretty disturbing stuff...

[Young Spartan]

Originally Posted by Evdawg

on a related note, have you guys been following the abuse at the US iraq prisons? pretty disturbing stuff...

I haven't seen much of it. What's been going down?

[Evdawg]

US soldiers have been abusing captured iraqi, here's a news story. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3672901.stm

[Young Spartan]

Oh, yeah, I heard about that. Not every person in the US is a good person, there will be bad eggs who torture the prisinors but America is against it and fighting at all will to keep it from happening. The press want to make big deal out of it, I mean sure its horrible and wrong, but Saddam was torturing / executing many more people than we have touched, so its still an improvement and we are taking steps to decrease the problem.

Yuneek

[Nikki]

I'm disgusted with the Army. We went into Iraq to find weapons of mass distruction and stop their corrupt leader because of what was going on under his rule. This corruption included rape and abuse rooms, but somehow our Army had the balls to do the same thing they were trying to stop.

The USA might be the world Super Power, and we might be able to push people around with our armed forces, but eventually it will be too much for our own good. By the armed forces acting in this way, many people have to live looked at as the bad guys. This one troop may not represent the Army but in some odd twisted way they do represent America.

Our secretary of defense is nearly being forced to resign before his last year is through. He won't be serving another four years unless President Bush wins the election (doubtful) and even then, his only way to stay in the cabinet is if President Bush fights for it. If the opposing presidential candidate wins then that party is already imposing plans on getting rid of Donald Rumsfeld (sp?).

He's screwed.

[Young Spartan]

Originally Posted by Nikki

I'm disgusted with the Army. We went into Iraq to find weapons of mass distruction and stop their corrupt leader because of what was going on under his rule. This corruption included rape and abuse rooms, but somehow our Army had the balls to do the same thing they were trying to stop.

The USA might be the world Super Power, and we might be able to push people around with our armed forces, but eventually it will be too much for our own good. By the armed forces acting in this way, many people have to live looked at as the bad guys. This one troop may not represent the Army but in some odd twisted way they do represent America.

Our secretary of defense is nearly being forced to resign before his last year is through. He won't be serving another four years unless President Bush wins the election (doubtful) and even then, his only way to stay in the cabinet is if President Bush fights for it. If the opposing presidential candidate wins then that party is already imposing plans on getting rid of Donald Rumsfeld (sp?).

He's screwed.

Let's see here.

Nikki, first of all, I would like to call you for being hypocritical, not 1-2 months ago you were a Busch loving Republican, flying taped to the right wing. All of a sudden it changes, what a surprise.

We stopped a government that was executing thousands of people a year, abusing tens of thousands and terrorizing hundreds of thousands. Now our armed forces has ONE bad egg in it and you are against the hundreds of thousands of problems we stopped? Sit back and think about it, do you really expect our armed forces to have all 100% satisfying warriors? No. With so many people in the military, there are bound to be arses who abuse prisinors. Our country has correctly handled the situation by not only revoking his power but is taking the steps to punish him correctly.

The USA is a world super power, and we do push people around, and it will come back to us - but it is all to protect you, me and our country. We were looked at as bad guys long before this, try 1800's. No matter what we do, a country somewhere is going to be generally displeased and despise our country including our citizens. Every person standing in America represents us, not just our armed forces, does that mean that you should'nt curse people or get in trouble in school... or so on?

Donald's recent problems have only occured due to political games from the democrats (and republicans alike) to make the opposing party look bad in the public eye. The difference is, the democrats use the press to mislead while the republicans state true facts to represent themselves. The democrats have no real fight against the republicans because the republicans are running a fair, smart, unbiased country. The only way Busch will lose the election is to unwealthy minorities who use democrats to give more money to unemployment and welfare to completely support them, as where the republicans just give them enough to get on their feet and get a job, as it should be, but the low-lifes like to use it to their advantage. There is nothing wrong with using these tools our government gives you, to help you, but to let it support you is wrong, thats taking away from our country and blowing tax payer's dollars. Ever watch BET? Ever see one of the political jokes about how good Bill Clinton was?

They idolize him for 3 reasons... if you listen, all of most of these are always stated in the joke:

1. He had sex in the white house.
2. He smoked marijuana.
3. He used the money from US oil reserves that our country saved for hundreds of years, to keep us okay in time of need, to give money to support welfare and unemployment beyond where it needed to be.

So, if you think about it, he was really a great role model, eh? He made the US Citizens see an immediate benefit money wise, but in the long run we had no oil, leaving us dependant on outsourcing and then left Busch a country that was 20 billion dollars in debt, so Busch had to cut all of these benefits from the people, making him look bad. So, who is the bad guy here?

Most democrats rely completely on television news instead of reading in-depth reports that are unbiased and to the point. Which is why the democrats feed off of television broadcasted news, because they rely around money and the democrats know that a HUGE majority of Americans rely on the 7 or 11 o'clock news. How many Americans have the time to sit down and read long stories? Very few. They have 30 minutes a day, if that.

Finally, as for the democrat running (Kerry), my moms boss knows his wife personally (Kerry's wife is of the Heinz family.. you know, Heinz Ketchup and my moms boss formely owned Nabisco) and even she totally disagreed with him being eligable for president. She dislikes him with a passion... here is why...

1. He lied about his 'war stories.'
2. Just 1 year ago when he was an on position polotician, he voted against 7 of the things he is promising to do in office, make you wonder?
3. He lied about his medical status coming out of the war.

So, I hope I have enlightened you slightly.

[Order]

I wont quote Nikki's post, as Yuneek did that already.

So, Nikki, you feel that the countries military is wrong, but yet you will not leave the safety of the United States. I see people who hate the government, with passion, but do I see them leaving the country, I don't think so.

As far as I am concerned, you show disrespect to your country, you should be shot, and then your family should be billed for the bullet, why, because anyone who complains about the country that protects them, is no good the country, dead useless weight.

I was raised in a military family, both grandfathers were military, one in the air force, the other the navy for 20 years. One of my grandfather's left the military to become a Fire Fighter, to protect homes and lives.. before you make any statement about anyone being wrong, think of those who are selfless and save lives everyday before you attempt to say they are wrong.

[Nikki]

Blah, blah, blah. Just because I disagree with what the armed forces did doesn't mean that I don't love the US. I like being here. It's free. I just dislike how things are being handled. I also said that I didn't feel that all of the armed forces were represented by this one troop, did I not? Trust me. My dad was a Navy SEAL. The military is much appreciated from over my way.

And Alex, before you get your panties in a bunch, you're right. I was a Republican. You know how often I change my mind. I'm a confused person. However, I did explain to you how I was beginning to dislike George Bush because of his actions. I agree with some of the Republican views but then again I agree with Democratic views.

I even blogged about it, wrote editorials in a REPUBLICAN ZINE (I'm fired, btw...haha), and had several arguments with a few of my Republican buddies. I also registered over at PunkVoter.com because George W. Bush is most likely one of the dumbest people I've ever laid eyes on (besides myself... in the mirror).

The first turning point in my Anti-Bush belief was the importing of his Burmese goods (campaign sweatshirts) after he BANNED the importation of stuff from Burma claiming that they need to get their economy up because of the horrible government or some crap.

And so - Digital - you mean to tell me that you've never had a discrepency with an action that a United States President has taken? Not a scandal? A dumb law? I don't show disrespect to my country. I show disrespect to the jerks that feel its necessary to beat the life out of the people we're supposed to be rescuing.

And yes - maybe the amount of people injured by that one troop wasn't a lot - but it still counts. It was INHUMANE. Then again, some people can't really tell the difference, can they?

Now. I'm calling security.

[Order]

Nikki, I have never had a problem with any action of the President, or our Military. If I were called to draft, I would go without complaint, and do my best, as this country is built on blind faith, our law is based on blind faith, if you cannot trust the government, then there is no use staying here.. simply said.

I trust the government's actions are for my benefit, period. I have seen destruction, films of the bombs falling in Japan, I have seen prisoners, U.S citizens being tortured just because they wish to make the world free, don't tell me you think war is wrong, or not needed. As I stated above, war is the foundation of civilization, without it, we all die.

You mean to tell me that you hate the President, yet you overlook the Presidents of the past, who had slaves, who could kill people without recourse, yet you seem to focus on one person, how is that right, or even correct? It isn't, if you wish to complain about the government, you should not use the resources or protection it grants you, as then you are contridicting yourself, and it looks bad..

So before you ask, or claim I have a problem with our president, so be it, it is human to dislike another, but still, he is the person who stands for our freedom. I come from a republican background, and I believe in the republican beliefs without complaint.

Tell me this, what if Carey, the front runner of the democratic party became President, you think he would protect you, or even care for your protection, no, he would spill money into programs and claim the world needs a government that will take away the basic rights.. is that right?? Is it fair. You think he would keep wars going, no, instead we would rape the military, and leave us defenseless in our own country.. not the correct way.

Bush has handled September 11th, better then Clinton, or Gore could, he acted in a matter that saved the country, and several lives, he condemned Terrorism as the enemy, not just Al Quida, or Saddam..

So before you whine how our President sucks, you better have a complaint for the rest of those before him, as they are as important as him.. I for one realize that I am powerless, my complaining against him is pointless, yes I know it is every american's right to overthrow our government without strife, but we have never had to do so, and I see no reason why complaining about a man is going to help the troops who are keeping your freedom alive and well.

As for the incident this started about, the people of iraq that we have locked up, don't like us, would kill us without a tear, or even care about the bodies that they shot. Why should we be nice and take care of idiots who wish us dead, there is no love in war, and I for one can care less about those who do not wish to change.

[Nikki]

Digital, I have a complaint about nearly everyone and everything. Like you said - without war there is chaos. What's a war without an argument? This is mine. That is yours.

Contradicting myself is something I do a lot. I enjoy it. It makes me think more. Being biased about everything is boring, imo. And yes - I have plenty of complaints about former presidents. If my mother made a dumb choice about smoking crack I'm going to let her know that I think it's wrong and then put up a fight about it. Doesn't mean I hate her. I never said I hated Bush. I do hate some of the choices he's made, though.

If everyone who hated an action that the government left the country, then what good would the United States be? Their freedoms would have no use because that's what they're there for.

Quite the American you are, claiming that I should be shot for my beliefs. Your family was/is in the military, but yet you're going against everything the United States stands for: FREEDOM. I can, and will, put up a fight for whatever I feel is unjust or just. Go print out a copy of the Amendments and Constitution. Then come back and argue with me, because until you realize that I can dislike and complain about anything I see, the paragraphs and paragraphs you type are garbage in my eyes.

Attacking me personally for what I believe in is pointless because you're not going to change my mind by doing that. Try attacking my opinions instead, and if you can't do that PM me because I can Google a tutorial on how to.

I'll jump down from the soap box now.