Iraq is really getting bad? - Page 2

cuteboringlove · 05-10-2004

FIY...

Disagreeing with a countries movement shows NO disrespect whatsoever. AS an American citizen, we (Nikki, you, me, anyone) has the right to show civil dissent. What you call "disrespect" is, in reality, simply finding faults in the American government and trying to fix them. We're allowed to do that, right? In this "free" country, where we're "free" to speak out loud, without getting shot and our families being billed for the bullet, right? If anyone's un-American, it's you, Digital, for not realizing what this country IS about. However, it's not just you. It's the majority of the Republican party. People should be open to hear new ideas and opinions about the way "we're" running things, rather than flash a face of disgust to any word of opposition. How else can we improve, otherwise? We can't. We aren't. If anything, more countries are starting to call us dirty scum. And to an extent, they're right. That won't change unless people become more open for the voices OF our citizens. Isn't that what we fought for in 1776?! For our freedom? For our voices to be heard? If it weren't for that very drive, America would still be under British power. Why should we change that?

Order · 05-10-2004

I never stated that you should be shot for your beliefs, just mentioned that complaining in middle of the internet is quite pointless.. and I must confess that I am guilty also.

Now, I understand the constitution, and the principals of freedom it gives us, and I realize you are entitled to your opinion, and me to mine, but however, conversations such as these do tend to cause some flaming, and it is natural, religion and politics are touchy subjects..

In my above post, I mentioned that is the right of every american to overthrow our government without strife, which means we can do what we have to, in order to the keep the country free.

You mention this whole topic is about Freedom, do you think those prisoners were free, ever, most likely not free in the sense you mean. Now, don't take me as bloodthirsty, but you seem to think that people are innocent, and should be treated fair.. when the reality is many of them have fired a bullet at the sons and daughters, the fathers of the United States, they are not innocent, and many families of lost soldiers I am sure agree in part to this ideal, as these prisoners are just as guilty as those who put bullets through there loved one.

We have always treated prisoners according to the Geneva Conventions, or the rules of war, when our enemy, Saddam went and tossed them away. Those prisoners are being taken care of more then they would have taken care of any US Prisoners of War. Before claiming the government was wrong to let it happen, you must realize that war is not pretty, sure it is a lot safer then it used to be, and less bloody, since long peices of metal were switched to little peices of metal.. it has become more humane then ever..

I am done with this topic, and it should be closed, however I will defer to m0g's judgement if he wishes it open..

cuteboringlove · 05-10-2004

Number 1, I do believe you said one should be shot for disagreeing with what America is doing.

Number 2, you stated how without war there is strife. Tell me how on earth that is valid.

Number 3, true, there are many people in this country who have wronged in a severe way. However, that's what jail is for. Innocent until proven guilty. Also, that is irrelevant to anything I've been saying.

Number 4, being taken care of? Tell me how raping and killing PRISONERS is going to take care of a single thing. Prisoners as in in our captive, as in can't-do-anything.

**Man1c M0g** · 05-10-2004

I don't want to get involved in this fight on Biorust, but I thought i'd just use this quote to remind you all that questioning the decisions of leaders isn't treasonous OR unpatriotic. It is democracy...

Quote:

To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that we are to stand by the president, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public. (Theodore Roosevelt - 1918).

Order · 05-10-2004

Quote:

Originally Posted by cuteboringlove

Number 1, I do believe you said one should be shot for disagreeing with what America is doing.

One may say something that is meant as to critisize, or to place a point, without the intent to follow through or make it so.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cuteboringlove

Number 2, you stated how without war there is strife. Tell me how on earth that is valid.

Strife, as in the government refusing to allow its citizens right to revolt. As long as the revolt does not destroy the overall ability to rebuild the government, we can under the constitution throw the government out of the window, without the government having much say, as it is a right of the people.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cuteboringlove

Number 3, true, there are many people in this country who have wronged in a severe way. However, that's what jail is for. Innocent until proven guilty. Also, that is irrelevant to anything I've been saying.

You compare these people to the unspeakable horrors of Saddam?

Quote:

Originally Posted by cuteboringlove

Number 4, being taken care of? Tell me how raping and killing PRISONERS is going to take care of a single thing. Prisoners as in in our captive, as in can't-do-anything.

What would they do to you if you are a prisoner, treat you like a price or princess, I think not, most likely you would not have lived long enough to be taken as prisioner, they have the easy way.

Young Spartan · 05-10-2004

Edited out due to my own mistakes.

Yuneek

Nikki · 05-12-2004

As if you weren't a hypocrit, Alex. The comment was unnecessary, as I believe we're talking about Iraq and not about Nikki's actions or behavior, but rather her opinion. That doesn't include how it contradicts anything else I've said, because if we go on the subject of contradictions I could go on for pages and pages against just about anyone. I won't attack you personally, though.

Actually, I formed these opinions on my own. It's my interpritation of the information that I've been given. Until I see a PhD next to your name, you have no justification to analyze my behavior. I have a psychiatrist for that, bud. Thanks for the recommendation, btw.

As stupid as you may think I am, Alex, I am a human being and I can form opinions on my own without my parents or peers swaying me from my beliefs. That's one reason I handle peer pressure so well.

As for my siggy, it's sarcasm. I'm the most morbid, unpleasant person nowadays and I have always had my tacky, yet pleasant sarcastic comments. I'm witty. You should know that.

Just pretend you never dated me, Alex. It would help me out a lot, as it would probably help you also, because I like this board and I don't need your crud. You told me not to run away from my problems, and I'm not going to. I'm staying here, where I want to post, no matter what you say about me or do. But I'd honestly appreciate it if you would cut the personal attacks and reply with your opinion and not your analyzation of my characteristics.

</off topic>
<on topic>

How about that beheading? So, now what? Thanks to the actions of that troop someone was beheaded and it was taped. Are you still going to say that it doesn't matter what they did to those prisoners? How many more people are they going to have to behead in order for you people to realize that regardless of how many people we're saving from cruelty, the cruelty they gave them is still completely inhumane and a crock of spoiled soup? And no - the beheading was not a just thing to do, but the reason behind it was revenge. It's a taste of reality and our own medicine.

Order · 05-12-2004

Nikki, as much as I feel Yuneek deserved that little bashing.. I have a few points on-topic, but first these public service announcements:

Yuneek, you claim that this topic should stay open as long as no one bashes anyone personally, yet you go on to attack Nikki, that is just wrong, on all levels, and it makes me look down on you with not such grace as I once did. I have spoken with you before, and I know some of your history, but never would I thought you would contradict your own statements, unless you of course, lied to me, either case, it is wrong.

------------- on topic below ----------------

The beheading is the latest in a string of things that are happening, but to say it was revenge just for abusing a few captured iraqi's.. then that is thinking too stong for the little issues.

First off, there is no gotten proof of whether the person beheaded was indeed american, or proof it was not a setup (remember, those insane will kill themselves for what they believe in, without pre-thought). Although I will act as if it was a american in this post. This beheading was an attack to attempt to force the United States hand in leaving the country, which we will not until there is a strong government over there..

Simply stated, people die in war, and yes, it hurts.. a lot.. but yet we are powerless to stop it, as it is part of war, and there is little love in war., I say we grieve, then go after the assholes who did it, some has asked whether I come from a religious background, no, I was not raised with religion, nor do I particulary agree with religion as an ideal, however I do agree on the ideal of an eye for an eye... vengence is nature.. get used to it before it kills you..

*has finished his little speech.. and wonders how Yuneek and Nikki started going for eachothers throats, when they used to drive the boards insane with mentions of love*

Young Spartan · 05-13-2004

I have decided to withdraw from this debate due to the fact that it is very difficult for me to defend myself without contradicting myself and causing harm.

Yuneek

**Man1c M0g** · 05-13-2004

I think this thread has now run its course, and that many decent points have been made by all parties involved. As with all of society's most important issues, this problem will not be solved overnight - social change is a slow process and it will take many more decades for gay/lesbian issues to be addressed properly. Still, at least we are making a start - let's hope the discussion continues on in the real world as it has done here.

This thread is now CLOSED.