(confusing)Magazine ad specs

jswdana · 08-18-2007

Hi Folks;
I'm not even sure this is the right place to begin this discussion, but here goes. I am a fairly experienced Photoshop user, and have been thrust into (ready or not) magazine ads. I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around some of their jargon, especially "bleed" . Here are the specs:
Magazine Specs

* Trim 8.25" x 10.75"
Plus 1/8" Bleed (8.5" x 11")
* Image Area 7.25" x 9.75"

Ad Sizes

* Full Page 8.25" x 10.75"
(Image Area 7.25" x 9.75") This I understand

I guess I just need a good plain english definition of what "bleed" is first. I sent the first ads in 8.25" x 10.75" size and added 1/8" bleed, or what I thought was bleed. I thought bleed space was the area at the outside of the page that would be trimmed off in the publishing process?
I guess what I really need to know, is what is the best way to add 1/8" bleed to my page. Would I simply copy and paste my 8.25" x 10.75" finished image to a transparent ( or some other color) page sized 8.5" x 11"?
I know some of you pros are laughing right now, but have mercy on a guy thats got a lot to learn!
Thanks
Dana

**Tamlin** · 08-18-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by jswdana

I know some of you pros are laughing right now, but have mercy on a guy thats got a lot to learn!

I'm pretty sure no-one's laughing - the only way to learn is to ask questions. Unfortunately I can't answer your question myself, but there are a number of print professionals who are members here. Hopefully one of them will spot this and step up to the plate.

chuggs · 08-18-2007

I'm no print professional, but I think you're on the right path. I've always understood bleed to be the white margin that would be trimmed off later or left to allow for print misalignment. The only thing that I'd do differently is instead of copying and pasting your finished work onto the 8.5" x 11", I'd simply make sure you have a blank white background and then resize the canvas. It'll save you the hassle of trying to center your finished work on another page. If you're allowed to, you're going to have to share your work after it goes to print.

notjustgraphics · 08-19-2007

Let me see if I can help you...

Trim is the physical page size... it is the point (within a degree of error) that the page will be cut AFTER it is printed.

Bleed is generally 1/8" or 1/4" area OUTSIDE of the trim. It's purpose is to ensure that in areas where ink (or color) is to touch the physical edge of the page, that a small amount of 'overprint' compensates for the margin of error during TRIM.

Lets say you are printing a dark background onto a white stock (paper). If you start with a paper that is 12 X 14 and want to trim a page of 8.5 x 11, the printed image will be centered on the 12 x 14 page leaving a lot of white space around the edges. Now you need to TRIM that page down to 8.5 x 11. If your printed image was EXACTLY 8.5 x 11, the unavoidable degree of error in the TRIM process would leave a slight white margin along one or more sides of the page.

This error of margin is caused by any number of things... blade wobble on older cutters, even the slightest skew in the paper feed, even paper expansion due to humidity.

The solution is to print MORE of the image than is actually required, so that when you do trim to 8.5 x 11, you trim of a slight portion of the outer edge of the image, but there is no white margin anywhere.

You'll find super high volume printers like Magazines and Newspapers have wider bleed because there equipment feeds and prints so fast that it cannot be 10,000's of an inch accurate every time.

When you get into more custom and high end print jobs, the equipment runs at lower speeds and is typically much more accurate, however, event these print houses generally like a margin of error 'just in case'.

Now, as to why your TRIM size and IMAGE AREA are 1.25" I can only guess... since it's a magazine, they will have a binding edge (usually what is called 'perfect binding' where there is a spine and no staple or stitch). This makes a portion of the actual page unreadable because it's tucked into the binding. Then most magazines place there page numbers and other stuff in the bottom 1/4" of the page...

I hope that answers your questions...

Mike.

Jolt · 08-19-2007

Honestly, if you don't know this stuff you should be doing the ad.

notjustgraphics · 08-19-2007

Take it easy Jolt...

We have interns come to our office after 4 years in Graphic Design and Advertising and none of them know this stuff either...

It's the type of thing you learn as you go, and once you learn it, you know it...

Dana has obviously been given the responsibility of doing something he hasn't done before... rather than folding and saying 'I Can't' he's come here for help which is what BioRUST is for...

**Tamlin** · 08-19-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by notjustgraphics

Dana has obviously been given the responsibility of doing something he hasn't done before... rather than folding and saying 'I Can't' he's come here for help which is what BioRUST is for...

Well said, Mike. Sometimes - especially in the workplace - we don't get the luxury of choosing what responsibilities we get lumbered with.

Dana: hope Mike's post has helped you out. If you have any more questions, don't hesitate to ask.

jswdana · 08-19-2007

Thanks a lot folks. This does help a lot!
Dana

Jolt · 08-19-2007

I stand by what I posted. If you don't know this stuff you shouldn't be doing this ad in particular. It's fine to learn the stuff then apply it. But you shouldn't be learning for immediate production.

I don't know where you're getting interns, Mike. This is basic knowledge provided in prepress 101 at any college I know.

I've been in the industry for over 2 decades. I've seen many new designers that need a bit of help and I'm always free to aide. But there are some times when it's appropriate to state that you are out of your comfort zone and should not be in charge of doing something. If there's no other alternative it should be made very clear that if you do the job, it won't be done correctly and hiring a professional is a better alternative.

This is why "designers" have a terrible reputation when it comes to production... people think they can or are thrown into a position which requires specific knowledge and skill. But hey, anyone with Photoshop can be a designer, right?

notjustgraphics · 08-20-2007

Jolt...

When was the last time you reviewed an academic college's Graphic Design or Advertising program?

A Graphic Design graduate can enter such a wide range of practical vocations and pre-press certainly does not apply to many of them.

The graphic industry is drastically different today than it was 2 decades ago... For that matter, digital imagery did not exist back then... so don't tell me that you haven't learned a new thing or two along the way like ohh, maybe FTP, PDF, JPG, Raster/Vector, oh i don't know... photoshop... illustrator... umm, WINDOWS... perhaps the Internet... hell, i bet you even had to learn how to Burn a CD-ROM your first time through... geez.. didn't that make getting artwork to your printer a whole lot easier?

After all that, Bleed and Trim is a peace of cake.. don't you think?

Dana asked a question... the only appropriate response should have been helpful information...

Jolt · 08-20-2007

I wouldn't put someone behind the wheel of a car if they didn't know what the brake and gas pedal did.

notjustgraphics · 08-20-2007

Would you let them drive a car if they didn't know where the Cigarette Lighter or Spare Tire were located?

Dana didn't ask anything that is ground breaking... it's just bleed and trim!!!

Get over yourself.

mmyrnana · 08-20-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by notjustgraphics

When was the last time you reviewed an academic college's Graphic Design or Advertising program?

A Graphic Design graduate can enter such a wide range of practical vocations and pre-press certainly does not apply to many of them.

The graphic industry is drastically different today than it was 2 decades ago...

Yes sadly to say my Pre-press course was canceled the year before I was scheduled to take that course in my Graphic Design Degree program. I had to learn what I've had to learn on the job through experience reading tutorial resources such as Biorust and books.

It's becoming a fast paced world where designers are having to learn on the fly, and hopefully are lucky enough to learn it properly from a experienced professional. But not everyone gets that chance and we should be here to help out those seeking it.

Jolt · 08-20-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by notjustgraphics

It's just bleed and trim!!!

Exactly... equivalent to a brake and gas pedal, the very basics of printing.

I don't need to "get over myself" in any way. I'm being realistic. I have enough experience in the industry to KNOW beyond any shadow of a doubt what questions indicate someone is not suited for this field. You may as well be explaining how a ruler works (which I've had to do in the past).

**Tamlin** · 08-20-2007

Jolt: as Mike and mmyrnana have pointed out, people come to this forum for help with specific problems, not (usually) for career advice. We try to answer their questions and explain things clearly and concisely - that way, not only does the original poster benefit, but others who pass this way with similar problems may find a quick solution. Your "if you don't know this stuff you shouldn't be doing it" approach is not helpful to anyone.

I think this thread has answered Dana's original question, so it's closed.